President Kennedy, shot or murdered?

rowdygirl · Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:46 am Post subject:

the end

JT · Congressional Page Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 35

JT · Congressional Page Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 35

deportliberals · Congressman Joined: 26 Jan 2007 Posts: 704

deportliberals · Congressman Joined: 26 Jan 2007 Posts: 704

deportliberals · Congressman Joined: 26 Jan 2007 Posts: 704

deportliberals · Congressman Joined: 26 Jan 2007 Posts: 704

I errored yesterday when I said that Oswald's first shot hit Kennedy in the lower back of his neck. I was wrong and working from memory about a controversial event that happend some 43 years ago.

Oswald's first shot missed everything and supports my post above about the first shot NOT being the best shot...almost never is! Oswald was clearly aiming for Kennedy's head and did not score that shot until his third try. Oswald was obviously having "elevation" problems as shot one and shot two were low...below Kennedy's head. Oswald finally corrected for this error and scored a head shot the third time.

Anyone who has had military training or shoots long range competition knows immediately WHY Oswald made those shooting errors at such close range. He had not zeroed-in that weapon or had zeroed-in the weapon incorrectly. If the weapon had been properly zeroed, the odds are that only one shot would have been fired because Oswald would have hit Kennedy in the head the first time.

Now, about Oswald's shooting expertise. It was below average in the Marine Corp. He qualified as "sharpshooter" by only two points. For those people not familiar with military these rankings they are as follows:
(1) Marksman (lowest ranking)
(2) Sharpshooter (mid to mid-high ranking)
(3) Expert (superior ranking and only about 5% of men out of each company qualify for this ranking)

Oswald was NOT a hot shot by any official measure and I doubt he knew how to properly zero-in the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle he used. Furthermore, the exact Mannlicher-Carcano rilfe he used could only chamber and eject a round every 2.3 seconds, as tested by the FBI.

If you believe the predominant theory that Oswald got off all three shots in 8.4 seconds, then you must also believe that Oswald was able to aim all three shots in 1.5 seconds...it's simple math folks:

(1) 2.3 seconds to chamber & eject each round x three rounds = 6.9 seconds.

(2) If it took 8.4 seconds to fire all three shots as claimed, then you must subtract the 6.9 seconds it took just to bolt-action all three rounds and that leaves you with only 1.5 seconds for aiming. Given that Oswald was barely an average shooter by marine standards, I think it is beyond remarkable that Oswald hit much of anything when you add a moving target to the equation.

deportliberals · Congressman Joined: 26 Jan 2007 Posts: 704

JT · Congressional Page Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 35

rowdygirl · Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:12 am Post subject: Final Words

Your right deport, that did come form another document though I have no idea what blog or wed site it was on. I received it as an email form one of several people I communicate with, some of whose opinions differ radically from my own. However, we are not abusive nor insulting to one another because of those differences. Yes, it should have been attributed. And yes it should have had “quotes” which I failed to add. And yes it was my error that I did not proof the post more closely before submitting it. And actually it should have had more than quotes because it was not lifted “verbatim line-for-line”, but is a composite from three different paragraphs and therefore should probably have been sourced as well as quoted. The source being, Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy: Two Great Presidents of the United States Assassinated for the Cause of Justice, by Melvin Sickler.

It would have been a simple matter to bring the missing “quotes” to my attention. I would have promptly edited the post and added the source. But I understand just from the short time I have been visiting this forum and reading your posts (and I have read nearly all of them) that your m.o. is to insult, abuse, and generally try to humiliate anyone who differs at all from your opinions.

“I errored yesterday when I said that Oswald's first shot hit Kennedy in the lower back of his neck. I was wrong and working from memory about a controversial event that happend some 43 years ago.” An error I noticed deport. You will recall that one of my points from my first post was that Lee Oswald’s first shot missed the limo altogether. The other error in the same sentence is “hit Kennedy in the lower back of his neck”. In fact, the shooter’s second shot struck the President in the back several inches below the base of his neck just to the right of his spine. That’s what makes the “magic bullet” so magical. The bullet on a downward trajectory striking the President in the back would have to be pretty magical to then turn upward to exit just above the knot in his tie, not to mention where it went from there and remained nearly undamaged (not “pristine” as some have said but nearly undamaged). I suggest you refresh your memory by viewing some of the pictures taken from that day. I refer you to Robert J. Groden and Harrison Edward Livingstone’s book High Treason. Here you will find photos of both the back wound and the Warren Commission’s exhibit #339, the “magic bullet". As to the “exit” wound in the President’s throat I would refer you to JFK: Conspiracy of Silence, by Dr. Charles A. Crenshaw, one of the attending physicians at Parkland Hospital on the day of the assassination, wherein he states, “I have wanted to shout to the world that the wounds to Kennedy’s head and throat that I examined were caused by bullets that struck him from the front, not the back, as the public has been led to believe”.

“By restricting the air assault to only eight B-26s, Kennedy made failure highly probable”

Oh my, another error. It’s a small one I know, and of course you were working from “memory”, but, an error all the same. There were not eight B-26’s in the air assault. “Bissell had originally requested sixteen B-26’s to accomplish the job. That was the minimum needed to attain the objective. But as the hour of decision approached, Kennedy backed down and authorized only six B-26’s.” This from The Kennedys: Dynasty and Disaster 1848-1984, by John H. Davis.

The point of this exercise has been this, deport: We all make errors. But we all don’t jump right to attacking someone’s integrity for plagiarism without at least a minimum of questioning to see if maybe there was an error made. Had you posted that quote and said “Hey rowdygirl, where’d ya get that information”. I would have reread the quote, seen my mistake and promptly correct it.

The really sad thing is deport, I sense that you are an intelligent and articulate person. I can see that you write well. I can see that you have strong opinions and I find nothing wrong with that. But you need to be more open minded toward the opinions of others. You don’t have to agree with there opinions at all, but shouting the loudest and abusing the most doesn’t win your arguments it only hurts your credibility. No matter how you feel about my conspiratorial view of history, calling me America hating, left-wing liberal trash, gains you nothing and it certainly doesn’t harm me. No matter what you call me or how you feel about my views I am still a moderate conservative. I love America and I hate the direction it is being pushed. I hate big government and want it out of my life. I am fully behind the tenth amendment and believe in states rights. I want the Supreme Court justices to stop reinterpreting the constitution to fit the flavor of the month because they are paying back the guy who put the black robe on them. I have no quarrel with legal immigration, but I want every illegal alien within our borders rounded up and put on the next bus back to their home country, not given a medicare card and a drivers license. Even as a woman I think women’s lib, for all it has done for women, is one of the biggest factors in taking mom out of the home, weakening the family and putting our children and their education in the hands of big government where they do not belong. I detest all of the social programs that eat away at our tax dollars, but I also realize that we have a social responsibility to others in our society. Jesus says if you do this for the least of them you do this for me, (please don’t make me quote sources here, I am paraphrasing). I think he makes it clear in many ways that we all have a duty to one another. James says that faith by itself unaccompanied by action is dead, that faith without deeds is useless. There has to be some balance between our own selfishness and our duty to be of service to others. We can’t turn our backs on those in need shouting “survival of the fittest!, survival of the fittest!” and call ourselves followers of Jesus. Do you see anything here, deport, that looks like left-wing liberalism? If you do than I have obviously missed the whole concept of liberal and conservative.

Yes I do believe in the conspiratorial theory of history as opposed to the accidental or coincidental theory, and I would have loved to have spent a little time explaining why, but you couldn’t or wouldn’t hear me over your shouting. I do because I believe the wealthiest among us (world wide not just here in America) have the power to push the world in a direction they want it to go. And I think they have been telling us where they want us to go for more than a century. I know I have been studying the groups that represent them for thirty years. If you look at the bottom of very first post I made in this category I think you will find I have quoted some respected leaders there that appear to agree with me.

Well, that’s it for me deport. I humbly bow to you as the loudest shouter, the best insulter and the most powerful abuser. I am sorry you feel this is the way you need to get your point across, I think we could have had some interesting debates and lively discussions (I am using the we here in a general sense, as in all the members in the forum) but I am just as sure I will not be missed. I think we could have learned something from one another and possible taught things to one another and I am sorry to see that opportunity slip away.

The only thing I will say to you in closing deport is that you will never bring anyone to your cause by beating them up. You need to lead them to it. There is a book on leadership by Warren Bennis, titled, Managing People is Like Herding Cats. Well, you know you cannot herd cats. You can entice them, you can cajole them, you can bribe them with treats, you must lead them. Bennis talks about the techniques of good leadership and the qualities necessary for successful leaders, but he also discusses the problems facing our society during a crises of leadership (which I believe we are in the midst of). I found it enlightening and entertaining.
I apologize for my sarcasm, but as I told JT, it’s just my nature.
Good luck in your future endeavors and be well.

JT · Congressional Page Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 35

Rowdygirl, I wanted to talk JFK conspiracy theories and evidence. Are you gone for good?

deportliberals · Congressman Joined: 26 Jan 2007 Posts: 704

deportliberals · Congressman Joined: 26 Jan 2007 Posts: 704

deportliberals · Congressman Joined: 26 Jan 2007 Posts: 704