Why Did Abe Lincoln Start The Civil War???

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Why Did Abe Lincoln Start The Civil War???
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James Rottnek
Mayor's Aide

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 65

Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:00 pm Post subject:

I agree on what the war was fought over. However, my reason was the main reason for the secession. I also never said that slavery was only practiced in the South, just that they were the only states that decided that Lincoln would outlaw it.

deportliberals
Congressman

Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 704

Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:17 am Post subject:

James Rottnek wrote:

I agree on what the war was fought over. However, my reason was the main reason for the secession.

Then you're wrong twice! Slavery was NOT the reason the south seceded. I gave you the correct historical reasons the South seceded...do you homework.

James Rottnek
Mayor's Aide

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 65

Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject: ...

I did.

Anonymous Mind
Mayor's Aide

Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 56
Location: US

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:38 am Post subject: Hate for Abe

deportliberals wrote:

Of course, today's lying history paints Abe Lincoln as a kindly, soft-spoken man who stopped slavery and saved the union.

Well...someone needs to ask the historians why Abe Lincoln represented (in court) slaver owners who sued to get their property(slaves) returned to their ownership. Lincoln never represented the slaves! Maybe some historian can explain why Abe Lincoln fought for legislation to prevent blacks from immigrating to Abe's home state, Illinois... Abe was a congressman when he did that. Maybe some historian can explain Abe's letters declaring that blacks can never be the equal to whites.
Maybe some historian would like to explain why Abe Lincoln never mentioned a goddamn thing about slavery until 1854 when he joined the newly formed Republican Party.

In the meantime, let me list some of the kind & gentle things Abe Lincoln did TO this country:

(1) Invaded the South without congress' approval.
(2) Blockaded Southern ports without congressional approval or a declaration of war from congress. Again, this points out how the north really didn't want to go to war with the South...but Abe was hell bent to save his political career.
(3) Illegally suspended the constitutional protection of "habeas corpus."
(4) Imprisioned thousands of northern anti-war protestors and hundreds of northern newspaper editors without trials. So much for Abe's dedication to free speech. Again...this shows how the north was dragged into the war by Abe.
(5) Censored all newspapers and telegraph communications. Abe really didn't like free speech at all.
(6) Created three new states without the approval or consent of the people of those states. Why...to inflate the electorial vote in his favor.
(7) Actually deported Ohio congressman Clement L. Vallandigham for daring to oppose his domestic policies.
( Cool

Committed major private property confiscation on a massive scale.

Lincoln was NOT some kindly soft-spoken soul. He was utterly vicious and very vendictive and even his generals were taken in surprise by some of his cruelty. Go read what General Sherman wrote about Lincoln when he came to DC to report to Lincoln about his scortched-earth campaign through Georgia. Sherman wrote that he was utterly shocked to watch Lincoln laugh repeatedly when he told Lincoln about the punishing tactics used to cause major civilian casualties during the Georgia campaign. For a man like Sherman, who was cold as steel, to be take aback enough to write about this incident speaks volumes about Lincoln's hidden personality.

Wonder why the historians/professors don't teach these truths...maybe they don't want to see Lincoln's face removed from Mt Rushmore...it's called liberal politics. To admit that the South was right & perfectly legal in what it did is something the libs just can't let happen.

I respect and agree on much of what you wrote for though I am still in Middle Schhol, ask yourself this: If Abe was truly such a man that seemed
to propose less complex aspects of communism rather than good old American-Republic-Democracy freedom of speech and such, then how did he get away with it?
The founding fathers' generation rebelled against a king that harassed them throgh taxes and other such oppressions, but according to your statements compared to Abe he was Ghandi. And as people proved to be more easily aggrivated as the south and other moments in history at the time suggested, do you believe that such a president as you have described could have survived impeachment and the other 2 branches of gov and be recorded in the history books as america's best president?
Espeacially since America was created, all its laws designed to demolish such actions in the government.
So the question is: If Abe was such a bad guy, how did he get away with it in a country opposed to hostile dictatorship, and even if he did the image of a cruel dictator?which i never encountred in history books,(at least the ones i read and i read quite a few) though it was obious that politically he was rather undeveloped and it was trully by luck that he won the election. And the other most obious question is how did he get approval or the means and resources to start a war without approval of congress or the other branches of gov?
If you could answer these questions for me and provide links or other resources supporting your claims I would be greatfull.

Oh another thing, i have an account Strategos, but i never got the email thing to activate do i wait or something? I just joined today...

Anonymous Mind
Mayor's Aide

Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 56
Location: US

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:42 am Post subject: Re: ...

James Rottnek wrote:

I did.

I agree, though slavery was one of the isuess, for succesion, it was not the main one. the southern states were feeling cheated by the northern states which had all the infustrial power aswell as political influence.
The south was aware of the consequences of Lincoln's election. Knowing the outcome, it seceded from the union. Abolishingslavery would simply decrease production for the south.

Anonymous Mind
Mayor's Aide

Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 56
Location: US

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:50 am Post subject:

deportliberals wrote:

O.K...since no one wants to discuss the real reason(above) why the South seceded, let's see if I can drive the point home this way. If the federal Gov't tacked on an 18.84% import tax on ALL imported goods(cars, trucks, electronics, foods, etc) YOU purchase and this tax would only impact the region of the U.S. where YOU lived (South), would you pay this tax????

If a presidential candidate and his/her political party promised that, if elected, they would raise the above tax from 18.84% to 40% on all the imported goods YOU purchase in your region(South) to build roads, railroads, ports, etc in another region(North) of this country where such a tax is not operative, would you pay it???

This is exactly what the South faced if Lincoln and the Republican party won the 1860 election, which they did. Lincoln and the republicans made no secret that they intended to use the power of the federal gov't to convert the prosperous southern states into nothing but poor agricultural colonies of the North by taxing the South to death.

So, on Dec 20, 1860, South Carolina was the first state to say goodbye and they were later followed by 11 other southern states.

This secession action put Abe Lincoln in a world of sh*t!!! With the South gone there would be no way the North could finance(taxes) all their industrial projects & expansion since the South had been paying the majority of taxes to the North. What was worse for Lincoln, politcally, was that all the wealthy industrialists who backed his candidacy for president were now goin to go bankrupt or face financial ruin which meant the end of Lincoln's political career and which would make him an immediate lame-duck president because he would lose the backing of his party.

Lincoln was beyond paraniod over how his few month old presidency had been turned into political death for himself & his presidency. Lincoln cared nothing about slavery, but he did care about all of the northern industrialists & capitalists who had made him president and who were depending on him to deliver large tax increases from the South.

So, he went looking for an excuse to make war since he believed that the war would last no more than 90 days and he believed that it would take just one or two northern victories to scare the South back into the union. Big mistake!! And Lincoln was warned repeatedly by his own party and members of his military NOT to make war on the South.

So, the first thing Lincoln did to announce his intention of making war was to trash the Consitution. This is what all good liberals do...trash the constitution for their convenience!!! In this case, Lincoln added language that had been deliberately left out of our Constitution. What language??? It's called the "perpetual clause." What was the "perpetual clause"??? Before the U.S. Constitution was written and ratified, we joined as a nation legally by a document called the Articles of Confederation. In the Articles of Confederation was placed the "perpetual clause' which said that a state can only secede if all states secede at the same time.

When the U.S. Constitution was written and approved, the "perpetual clause" from the old Articles of Confedration was deliberately left out thus allowing any state to secede without having to have all the other states secede as well. Hence, South Carolina or any other state could(and did) legally secede.

Well...good ole lying Abe went before congress claiming that the "perpetual clause," which was deliberately left out of our Constitution, all of the sudden now applies to the U.S. Constitution and, therefore, any state seceding is breaking the law and violating the Constitution. Welcome to lib dictatorship! This blatant lie is but one of many of Lincoln's power-drunk bastardizations of our Constitution. There's only two organizations in the world that I know of where if you belong and then want to leave you'll
be killed...Lincoln's 1860 America and the mafia!!!

Lincoln set the course for bloodiest war in our history out of pure fear for his political career & his presidency. Virtually everyone on both sides(north/south) knew and understood that the South was going to eventually return to the union, and that's why the majority of his own party warned Lincoln NOT to go to war with the South over secession. There was no legitimate reason to get 900,000 americans killed and devastate the economies of 13 states. Lincoln WAS NOT the saver of the union...he saved NOTHING...

In truth, the North and South could not live separately from one another,
seceding was trully a very dumb thing to do, the North was rich industraully, while the south agricultuarly. The North could not survive without the profit the south created, but neither could the south produce it without the North's industrial support. So you see it was a foolish thing to do, but the Civil War was inevetable, though if it could have been averted who knows America could have been a very different, the Civil War taghat America how to avoid such a conflict again and perfect and improve its gov.Image if there was a Civil War within the country now? But then again, America's citizens are extremely passive right now its only the gov whos struggling to do something inthe world rihgt now.

deportliberals
Congressman

Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 704

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Hate for Abe

Anonymous Mind wrote:

As I made clear above...if you said or did anything that was anti-Abe during that time, you made yourself a target for arrest or worse. People were actually shot dead for just making anti-Abe statements. The one thing Lincoln had going for himself that enabled him to become a mini-dictator was the full support of his military.

Quote:

do you believe that such a president as you have described could have survived impeachment and the other 2 branches of gov and be recorded in the history books as america's best president?

First, Abe was impachment-proof!! I just told you that the 1860 election that made Lincoln president also gave Lincoln control over both houses of congress due to the fact that his party(the republican party) won the majority in both houses. How the hell do you impeach a president who politically controls both houses of congress???? Got any examples??? Furthermore, Abe only president of the North, not the South. Jefferson Davis was president of the South. The people who would have impeached Lincoln had left the Union!!!

Next time you visit Charleston, SC do yourself a favor and take the two-hour Civil War walking tour given by history professors. I don't know what the hell you've been reading or what kinda of crap passess for American history these days, but the accurate accounts I've given in this thread should be common knowledge for any college level person studying American history.

Quote:

Oh another thing, i have an account Strategos, but i never got the email thing to activate do i wait or something? I just joined today...

I don't have anything to do with that....

deportliberals
Congressman

Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 704

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:09 pm Post subject:

Anonymous Mind wrote:

Apparently you suffer from a reading deficit of some kind. I gave you the correct history. The South did NOT need the North. Virtually ALL of the finished industrial goods the South purchased was from Britian. That's why the North slapped IMPORT TAXES on the industrial finished products from England because the South didn't buy industrial goods from the North...DO YOU GET IT NOW????????????????????? The South had no use for the north, economically or culturally...they were two different nations living as one until Lincoln was elected president!!! What part of this don't you get?????

Are you aware that Britian sent 10,000 troops to the Canadian-American border to fight for the South against Abe Lincoln???? Why??? Because the Brits wanted to protect the economic investment they had with the South!!
The South didn't NEED the frickn' north!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Strategos
Mayor's Aide

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 101
Location: Which solar system do you mean?

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Hate for Abe

deportliberals wrote:

Anonymous Mind wrote:

Quote:

do you believe that such a president as you have described could have survived impeachment and the other 2 branches of gov and be recorded in the history books as america's best president?

Quote:

Oh another thing, i have an account Strategos, but i never got the email thing to activate do i wait or something? I just joined today...

I don't have anything to do with that....

America is based on freedom and anti tyrranny, Abe could not have survived if he was a tyrant in america!!!!! King Gorge 111 didn't survive did he? And even in communist nations everybody knew who was a tyrant: Stalin was hated by everyone in communist russia, and everyone was a ware of it. How can u tell me that in a country like america a person you claim who held harsh dictatorship and killed his own people to protect his office, he wouldnt have been noted as a tyrant an worst american presidnt?
Is he? no hes not, hes described as the best american commander in chief.

The North and South issue, true, the south did import much of its industrial needs from britain, but it needed the support of the north and the union with it to thrive and excist in the world.
So before you start throwing "facts" which seems only you have heard of for (some not all, i still regard you as an intelligent person ) actuallly put legit proof.

You cannot be impeachproof in america!! "the people have the right to alter and abolish a govermnet when it becomes destructive of these ends"
thats what happened in the revolutianary war, the us gov is for the people and by the people. Lincoln and congress could not have established dictatorships.
Why dont you read american history and use your brain??!

deportliberals
Congressman

Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 704

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Hate for Abe

Strategos wrote:

America is based on freedom and anti tyrranny, Abe could not have survived if he was a tyrant in america!!!!!

Because you are utterly clueless about your own country's history is not my fault. I've listed most of the anti-constitutional actions Lincoln took from starting the war without congressional approval; from suspending habeus corpus; to imprisioning newspaper editors by the hundreds to imprisioing anti-war protestors by the thousands. Becuase you don't know any of this IS YOUR FAULT!!! It happend, asshole...deal with it!!! All you do jack your empty jaw and demonstrate you know nothing about history that is just 150 years old.

Quote:

How can u tell me that in a country like america a person you claim who held harsh dictatorship and killed his own people to protect his office, he wouldnt have been noted as a tyrant an worst american presidnt?

I can tell you that because all the unconstitutional actions he took have been well-documented by our historians. You are just so uninformed that you find all of this hard to believe. Too bad....the problem is yours...the rest of know Lincoln was a friggin' tyrant.

Quote:

The North and South issue, true, the south did import much of its industrial needs from britain, but it needed the support of the north and the union with it to thrive and excist in the world.

Once again, dumbass, the South not only didn't need the North they didn't want the North. How many times does your soft brain have to be told that the South literally supported the North by paying more than 60% of all the taxes that went to the nroth. Just four southern states sent 51% of all the taxes that went to the north. The South was fed up with paying all the taxes. What is your problem??? Get up off your lazy ass and go read the facts instead of coming here with your childish crap.

Quote:

You cannot be impeachproof in america!!

Abe Lincoln was in fact impeachment-proof, tithead! Who was going to impeach him?? The South was gone and formed its own government. Lincoln's party(republicans) controlled both houses of congress. Just who the hell was going to impeach him, asshole??????? Please tell us WHO????
Furthermore, Lincoln was relected to his second by almost 58%...WHO was going to impeach him???????????????

Why don't you go get an education before bastardizing anymore of your country's history!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Strategos
Mayor's Aide

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 101
Location: Which solar system do you mean?

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:31 am Post subject:

wheres the goddamn proof? giveme links, other sites, hell a book i can find this in. You dont get the title of America's best president by being a tyrant!! Prove me wrong with proof, or do u simply have no idea what a link and source is? Example:http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/06/13/congress.spending.ap/index.html That's a link and a source. Cmon, prove me wrong, im here to learn, i dont care if you prove me wrong as long as you do so that you get me t believe you with legit sites. But so far, you haven't, all you did is cuss and called me stupid withought a legit proof! hell i can say i piss lighting, does that make it true?? Hey, everyone i piss lighting, no u dumbasses i do, ( and yet there is no proof given, i can yell all i want , like you, and not prove it, so do everyone a favor, and shut up and use that fragile brain of yours)

deportliberals
Congressman

Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 704

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:16 am Post subject:

Strategos wrote:

wheres the goddamn proof? giveme links, other sites, hell a book i can find this in.

You dont get the title of America's best president by being a tyrant!!
Prove me wrong with proof, or do u simply have no idea what a link and source is?

Example:http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/06/13/congress.spending.ap/index.html

That's a link and a source.

First, no one needs to prove a dumbass like you wrong...you do that yourself every time you make a posting at this site. There are ignorant people and then there is YOU!!

I see that once, again, you've posted an utterly irrelevant link to the topic under dicussion...proving...once again...that you can't read for sh*t. Unless you are capable of posting relevant links, give it up. So far, not one of the links you've posted at this site bears any relevance to the topics. This means that while I constantly post relevant links, sources and direct quotes, you have posted NOT ONE legitimate link. Remember, everyone, this is the clown who keeps asking ME for links but has not posted ONE VALID LINK himself!!!!

That you would challenge my postings about Lincoln doesn't surprise me. You know nothing about your own country or its history and this fact hows everyone hear that you're just too damn lazy to learn. Nevertheless, here are a couple of ON-TOPIC LINKS that confirm everything I've written here about that frickin' tyrant Lincoln.

The first link is a new book release discussing this history...get your mommy to read it to you. Second link confirms my earlier tax discussions about how the South actually supported the entire Northern infrastructure, businesses, etc by having to pay more than 80% of all the taxes. Get your mommy to read this one also.

www.amazon.com/Real-Lincoln-Abraham-Agenda-Unnecessary/dp/0761526463

www.geocities.com/mark_willey/civilwar.html

Of course, like most dumbasses, you think that the internet is the only source and final say on all topics...the internet is quite limited in most forms of research...meaning....get your ass to a library!!!

Pibber
Congressional Page

Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 27
Location: USA

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Hate for Abe

deportliberals wrote:

Strategos wrote:

America is based on freedom and anti tyrranny, Abe could not have survived if he was a tyrant in america!!!!!

Quote:

The North and South issue, true, the south did import much of its industrial needs from britain, but it needed the support of the north and the union with it to thrive and excist in the world.

Quote:

You cannot be impeachproof in america!!

What a load of horse manure. All that pointless talk. Seems like a lot of effort to make no point at all. I guess the point you were trying to make with all these lame equivocations is that slavery had nothing to do with the Civil War. There are no reputable historians who would subscribe to such an obviously agenda laden premise. Funny how people like to interpret their so called "facts" to fit what ever mindless lunacy they are predisposed to believe. Painfully transparent. Not very convincing though.

deportliberals
Congressman

Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 704

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:13 am Post subject: Re: Hate for Abe

Pibber wrote:

What a load of horse manure. All that pointless talk. Seems like a lot of effort to make no point at all.

Yeah...where are your sources, links, data to support your "pointless talk"???
All I see is a single post from you loaded with personal insults and nothing else. I've provided links and sources and have given accurate history.

Quote:

I guess the point you were trying to make with all these lame equivocations is that slavery had nothing to do with the Civil War.

Wrong! My point was very clear! It was the 1860 election results and the extremely high taxes that the south(almost exclusively) was paying that caused them to finally secede. Slavery was a secondary issue and the war was NOT fought over slavery. And, there would have never been a war if that idiot Lincoln had not invaded the south, period!

Now...go get your mommy to read this very clear text to you and explain it to you.

Pibber
Congressional Page

Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 27
Location: USA

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Hate for Abe

deportliberals wrote:

Pibber wrote:

What a load of horse manure. All that pointless talk. Seems like a lot of effort to make no point at all.

Quote:

I guess the point you were trying to make with all these lame equivocations is that slavery had nothing to do with the Civil War.

Pretty funny. Taxes. Not slavery. As if the simple fact that you have made a declaration will insure it's validity. A crude but common tactic to try and gain control of the conditions of the debate.

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